Profiling YES – Pat-downs NO

Crotalus says:

This is just another symptom of the entire government ignoring the entire Constitution. We won’t be able to vote our way out of this.

Cap'n Bob says:

The Israelis do not do a TSA sort of search, yet thy have an excellent record of flight safety. Their thing is PROFILING passengers according to potential risk.

Here, some Islamic idiot sets his crotch on fire on Christmas Day, so everyone has to submit to crotch pat-downs. It’s insane.

Kini says:

More to the point, the TSA is reactionary and not proactive. The Shoe bomber and Underoo bomber were events after the fact. They still got on the plane. Both were red flags that were sent on their way, and more importantly, outside the US.

Glenn B says:

If you have ever watched El Al security agents in action, on a repeated basis, you would realize that they have a good working system but that if our government used their techniques, our government would have a much bigger amount of protesting by the public than it does right now over the seemingly offensive and apparently feeble but so far (maybe only due to luck) successful attempts by TSA to maintain secure flights. I worked at JFKIA in NYC for about 15 years plus and dealt with El Al on a routine basis. They routinely detained people for hours of questioning without PC, they routinely prevented passengers from flying based on appearance or hunches, they searched each and every piece of baggage and many went into a reverse pressure chamber (or whatever it is called when pressure is lessened) to see if it would explode, they routinely removed personal possessions from luggage and would not allow those items on their planes, they treated their own people, in my opinion, like dirt very often because they had a hunch they were terrorists (starting to sound familiar – is it). I am not saying their methods do not work, simply they would almost definitely cause more protesting than those of TSA and would definitely include 4th amendment violations if the government used all of their methods.

The thing about this all is that you have no right to fly on a private company’s airline without going through whatever the airline deems necessary security so long as they do not violate civil rights such as only searching whites or blacks. The airlines have all opted to allow uncle to do the searches. They can opt out if they so desire and they can implement their own security protocol. I would much prefer they did just that but you can bet that tort claim concerns will keep them from doing it.

As to the issue of the 4th amendment and PC: When someone in the discussion says that they are knowledgeable of search requirements, then please try to get it right when you state facts. I would think you would know when you needed or did not need PC to perform a search – including pat downs – and would not have made such a seemingly inflammatory statement that as an LEO you always needed PC to conduct a search. That is not factual if you meant it in general, if can only be factual if you meant it as it applied only to searches specifically made by you and that each and every search you performed required PC. In general though, for government law enforcement, as I imagine you meant it, please tell me, why would you need PC to perform a stop and frisk, why would you need PC to perform a patdown subsequent to a legal arrest, why would a federal official need PC to perform a border search, why would you need PC to perform an inventory search, why would you need PC to perform a consent search. The truth is that there are many types of search for which PC is not required. Keeping it factual goes a long way to keep the discussion meaningful. In addition, calling TSA something they are not does little to keep the discussion meaningful, they are not prison guards. You seem to have meant that as a derogatory statement. I have met many corrections officers who are exemplary at doing their jobs and that includes living with the scum that you and other LEOs have removed from the streets and therefore they live with heightened and almost constant risk that comes with dealing with felons virtually every minute of their day. Are you that high and mighty as a former LEO so as to consider yourself well suited to demean not only TSA personnel but also the so called prison guards when you do not even seem to realize some of the most basic tenets of the law concerning PC and when you need it to perform a search. So maybe you think the TSA approach is not working or is less than efficient and maybe less than professional, then say so but you do not need to demean every officer by name calling or to demean another group of officers by way of your analogy. Those other officers do a good job on he whole but apparently you believe to be less than you because you think a cop or other LEO is better than a corrections officer. Should someone now start comparing the police to the Gestapo? It would accomplish nothing.

I realize this is an emotional situation for many but it should not be such. It should be one in which we try to figure out what approach should be taken in order to provide proper security for people who fly and for people on the ground who could become 9/11 like victims. All those who want to just say NO NO NO – please tell me – what would you do. As for me, I think IF THE GOVERMENT IS TO CONTINUE WITH THIS that certain people should be focused on, those that evoke suspicions within legal guidelines. That is a big order to fill though, one almost impossible to fulfill without a lot of lawsuits and a lot of controversy. I see another way and that is to search everyone (including every piece of heir luggage) who flies and I do mean everyone. Of course that would mean a complete overhaul of how we fly and would include probably being at the airport at least 4 hours before a flight.

Of course, we could, as a nation, allow the federal government to have Customs like authority at the airports instead of just at the borders or at the functional equivalents of the borders. I am not for that because it would give the government way too much authority that it would inevitably try to expand the authority to things like rail travel or vehicular travel on the highways. Nope, I think a mandatory search system or a scanner is the way to go and if you say no then you can either consent to a pat down or not fly. Who you scan, who you pat down, should be based upon either: randomness, reasonable suspicion and or PC, consent. That would make it somewhat like it is now but I would insist on a higher level of professionalism than is evident with TSA. Bear in mind this comes down to you wanting to fly and also insisting that the government does something to assure that our flights are secure.

I seem to remember an almost unanimous cry, in this country, that we needed to secure our flights. Now that security has been implemented, successfully so far even if due to luck, I hear the expected outrage by those who have been searched. This is usually the case in the USA when folks demand this or that be done, then resent it when done to themselves. People always seem to think intrusiveness is okay when done to others but not to themselves. Now what should we do since people are outraged? Do we just drop it – or do any of you have an actual plan that would work. If so, let’s hear it. Please don’t tell me search only Muslims or people from the middle east or from countries with terrorists. It would be foolhardy and it would be illegal. Should we change our laws, policies and procedures just to allow for searching them? If you say yes, you are certainly missing out on what it means to live by our Constitution.

Again though, I believe TSA can stop what they are doing. In fact, they could be disbanded all together. That would be okay with me, in fact it would be preferable. My solution would have the airlines performing all of their own security. They own the planes, they would face the lawsuits if a plane blew up or hit a building, that would be incentive enough for them to do it efficiently. The government has no such impetus toward efficiency. It would also put a stop, a complete stop, to 4th amendment issues since the 4th amendment only protects a person from unreasonable searches performed by the government. Of course this means we would very likely wind up with the airlines facing lots of civil rights lawsuits by they who were offended at being searched. Why? Because the searches would have to run along the lines of those performed by El Al to work right. While Israelis live with this on a daily basis you can bet that most Americans would be crying foul just as they are now with TSA. This is not to say TSA is the way to go. I truly believe that private security is the way to go for airport security. Of course, I also believe that the government should still be investigating terrorism and I do mean investigating. Then if they get a credible threat they can act accordingly even if it means strip searching an 8 year old Irish American child or an 88 year old African American lady with two prosthetic hip replacements.

I have no way of proving if the private sector would do a better job though I think they would do so. If any you have a better solution, why not share it.

All the best,
Glenn B